“Kelly wrote "where are the girls/guys who like us??? "

Well, what I usually find is that the people who are most likely to already know about FTMs,
know some FTMs personally, and to seek them out as partners, are non-trans women who've
either come from the lesbian community or at least socialized there, OR other FTMs. I'm not
really looking for partners in either of those two categories ("why not?" is too much to go into
here). I prefer to date MTF tranzwomen, or alternately, femme, genderqueer, or somewhat
androgynous [or at least not really macho] non-trans males. So, duh, sadly for me, those are the
two groups who seem LEAST likely to date transmen.

Because? In my experience, non-trans men, and MTFs usually seem to have the least exposure
to transmen, to have met either none or few, and therefore, we just don't seem to be on their
menu. I'm speaking very generally--- obviously, no one, trans or not, can live in San Francisco
and not run into a ton of FTMs (!), so SF is a different situation entirely. Also, most MTF folks
who consider themselves TG activists always know some transmen. But the garden variety
crossdressing guy, or pre/non-op transwoman, or femme/qenderqueer gay man who isn't involved
in an activist community, and who lives outside CA?? I hear a lot of "I don't meet many", "never
thought about it one way or the other", "don't know much about FTMs". Gay men, of course,
have this whole _other_ issue about dating transmen......but that's another post. [The most
phallocentric people on earth dealing with their attractions to men who are "challenged" in that
department??? Puh-leeze. It can get ugly]. The situation for gay transmen is getting better, but
you generally have to be in a large city to meet people--- Boston, Seattle, SF, etc have FTM
communities that are large, visible, and assertive enough that they've made themselves known to
the gay male community. But that's rare. Even in cities like Atlanta, NYC, and Los Angeles, I've
met male FTM "admirers" who say "I don't know where to meet FTMs". I knew a guy in L.A
who posted ads all over the place, online, seeking FTMs. Gorgeous man living in the largest city
in the U.S.....he said he didn't know where to meet FTMs except online.

For one thing, we're of course, pretty invisible after we transition. That's great, re a goal of
"passing", but it sucks if you'd like for people in our "family" to know we're here too. Many
transwomen have gotten tired of bullshit from "admirers"---- the singular focus on sex,
objectification/being fetishized, having to "explain" the 101 stuff to non-trans people, safety
issues, etc. Sometimes I just want to cut through all that and say, to some trans woman I can
tell is understandably guarded, "honey, you won't have to school me on the 101, I am not a
stalker, I get it, I'm 'family', so can we just have a conversation without you worrying about
where I'm coming from???". But I can't afford to run around doing that spiel with everyone I
meet. Not in the South. Safety and employment concerns keep me from wearing a sign around
my neck.... .

In my original thread I posted the link to a tribe for FTM dating. But it's pretty dead. Plus, there
are the usual online issues---- you know, you find 2 out of 150 people there that you might be
interested in, and both live a thousand miles away. I'd be willing to start an FTM/MTF
Relationship tribe, but it'd be depressing if it just died....as so many of these things to, regardless
of topic. There's U R Not Alone (URNA), big friendship/dating site. FTM presence there is pretty nonexistent (though they were kind enough to give transguys a category...despite calling it "bois" or something not real accurate). There used to be a "butch/femme" dating site , forgot the name, where a lot of FTMs and women met; no non-trans men there, and FTMs who don't identify as "butch women" would have no reason to go there. The Yahoo Groups for
transwomen seem to have been taken over by "escorts"---- all about pic-trading, sugar daddies,
and sex for money. I never see any interest in real relationships, and certainly not with FTMs,
there. The commercial dating/profile sites usually don't even have a category for transmen. If
they even have "TG" or "transgender", it's synonymous with MTF, so again, no one will know
you're there. And you will get mail from non-trans men, saying "I want to treat you like the lady
you are"......most will not know what FTM is, even after you explain.

OK, girls------- ya'll really don't "outnumber" us in the real world, but there are more of you on
tribe, and we need your two cents here. Ideas??

What's up Kelly?

I was in one of my many tribes and I saw on the side where there are offers of other website communities, and I happened to see this one website.

It's called ButchFemme.com I'm a member there. Even though it is free, you also have the option of being a subscribing member. I've been a member there since April of this year and I like it. You may have to be a bit cool when you start out, just like any new community that you come to, but there are a lot of lesbians, femmes that like transmen, and are in long term relationships with us. There are also butches, and bois. So, you would say that you have a wide choice of women to get to know and just maybe, you will hook up with one of them, hell, you might end up in a polyamorous relationship.

Check it out!!

Thanks,

Sebastian